We just have fundamentally different
points of views, which is no crime.
The issue of Soviet Legacy
is fundamentally an issue of economic organization without capitalists and the
capitalist productive, and then how this was expressed in the ideological,
social and political sphere.
Â
To speak of the American
people and the working class of America â as a class - as if they were
affiliated with or sympathetic to the KKK is implied in your writing. This
implication is a fundamental misunderstanding of American society. Assigning
the American proletariat to the âfirst worldâ and those in the former direct
and neo-colonies to âthe Third worldâ began as the politics and ideology of is the
colonial bourgeoisie â Nasser - of the post WW II period.
II. There is a huge destitute proletariat in America, and it is
growing.
Its growth is due to several factors, including qualitative
changes in the means of production, which greatly reduce the value of commodities
and transforms the old industrial reserve army of labor into a destitute proletariat.
That is to say, the old industrial reserve army of labor is no longer a
âreserveâ or âindustrialâ for that matter. A âreserve . . . . of industry,â
means a mass of people thrown into the battle for production during peak
periods of expansion of capitalist production. Peak period of production no
longer require utilizing a âreserveâ and consequently this new mass of
destitute proletarians will never enter capitalist production.
Perhaps, you need to visit cities like Detroit and its surrounding
areas and throughout Michigan where unemployment runs 50%. Actually, one would
do well to examine the area of America called the Rust Bowl.
III. The issue of the âvalue relationâ is not one of wage disparity
or laborers in America being paid a wage greater than their counterparts
elsewhere. Â The idea that the working
class in America is paid a wage greater than the value they create in the global
market hardly amusing.
Lower wage rates means greater exploitation or greater surplus
value extraction. Even the American autoworkers, traditionally higher paid
workers, were never paid a wage rate greater than the value they created. Apparently
you call this wage disparity the American working class being subsided by less
paid laborers in the global market. The issue of social revolution has very
little to do with wage disparity in the global market or subsidies.
The working class of
America is amongst the riches people on earth means exactly what? The implication
is that classes do not exist in America. Well, classes exist in America and
have always existed in America. Social revolution is the real issue here.
Â
Social revolution is the
result of qualitative changes in the means of production. Hence, the industrial
revolution bookmarked as the invention of the steam engine and its related
technologies.
Â
Quantitative changes in the
means of production calls forth reform of the system. The âsystemâ being
reformed was the industrial system. The last great reform of the means of production
â the base of the system - was the period called âFordism.â It was not wage
disparity or the American workers being subsidized by other laborers that blocked
social and political revolution.
Â
Computers and robotics is
to our society what the steam engine was to manufacturing and the world of
landed property relations. Thus, America is entering another stage of social
revolution and wage disparity cannot halt this process. Whatâs missing is the
development of class consciousness, which is the task of an organization of revolutionaries.
We modern 21st century revolutionaries are abolitionists on the side
of the proletariat.
Â
IV. In the real world we are dealing with a class being pushed
into destitution. Hence, destitute proletariat. Stock ownership is worth
examining, since you apparently attached significance to it. Â
Many retired workers have managed to hang on to some stock
certificates but have had their pensions reduced by as much as 60% and face
increased health care cost due to the collapse of their health care benefits.
In real life this meant being forced into the Federal Pension Board, where ones
pension is automatically reduced by say 35% and other measures are deployed
effectively reducing pensions as much as 60%.
Let us assume these stocks
yield say $1200 a year or $100 a month. Due to owning a handful of stock somehow
this group of destitute proletarians undergoes a qualitative transformation into
a non-proletariat. Stock and stock ownership - like everything else in life â
ought to be looked at in concrete terms rather than abstraction. This means
looking at dimensions of wealth. If I receive say a 1% or 10% on my stock or banking
accounts, am I transformed into a non-proletariat due to collecting ârent?â Â The real issue is one of âdimension of wealthâ
and how this wealth is continuously reproduced - accumulated. Â I am not aware of any section of the American working
class that accumulates wealth based on stock ownership. In my lifetime I have
met a handful of workers that have been able to build wealth from stock, but
they exist as an anomaly. Most of these small stock owners generally find their
stock worthless, which is why our bourgeoisie offers stock in the first place. Â Stock ownership, like home ownership is a game
for suckers and something out of reach for the American working class as a
whole.
Â
Perhaps, owning stock in
1848 was a sign of membership in a class other than the industrial proletariat.
Â
Median income is of course
a meaningless concept in real life. Saying that I am rich compared to the
Chinese peasant means next to nothing.
Â
Soviet Legacy, which got
off to a bumpy start ought to be about the legacy of the Soviets rather than
reduced to Stalin the individual. The problem with this list was the moderator
reduced the initial discussion to the Moscow trials, the character and scope of
political liberty under the Stalin regime.
Â
Then again, perhaps list
such as this have outlived their usefulness and need an entirely different
orientation.
________________________________
From: Marcell Rodden <marcelthemaoist-***@public.gmane.org>
To: soviet_legacy-***@public.gmane.org
Sent: Tuesday, November 8, 2011 4:44 PM
Subject: Re: [soviet_legacy] Tanks and troops parade across Red Square
Â
First of all, your stats are either wrong or exaggerated. The median income is around $46k per year in the U$. So maybe you are saying individuals make $26k, but that's not household income.
Even so, $26k per year places you in the top richest 9.49% in the world!
$14 per hour is above the value of labour. According to world GDP the value of labour is less than $6 per hour, that means ameriKKKans are subsidized by 3rd world labour wages.Â
http://llco.org/serve-the-peoples-rough-estimate-of-the-value-of-labor
"The word proletariat means that human being that must sell their labor ability for wages or a job"
No, sorry that's not what a proletarian is. Marx and Engels gave us characteristics of this oppressed class throughout many of their works such as Das Kapital, Grundrisse, Wage Labour and Capital and The Condition of the Working Class in England.Â
1. Do not own the means of productiuon
2. Depend on the capitalist to hire them each day to survive
3. do not own any capital or property that can draw capital
4. work in productive/manufacturing sectors
5. Are paid below the value of labour
6. They are a destitute people, who literally have "nothing to lose but their chains". With the exception of #1 ameriKKKans and 1st worlders do not fit in this category, and even characteristic #1 does not describe all 1st world and ameriKKKan workers because many of them own stocks, shares and various stakes in companies, not just the one's they work for, and many own small businesses on the side.
Before you call yourself a Marxist, maybe you should read Marx.
http://llco.org/revisiting-value-and-exploitation
M.Â
Post by darryl mitchellÂ
There is a proletariat class in America.
50% of the American people make $26,000 a year and less.
60% of the American people make $14 an hour or less and $14
equal $560 for forty hours.
Post by darryl mitchellThe word proletariat means that human being that must sell
their labor ability for wages or a job. Job as a social institution has only
exited 200 years.
Post by darryl mitchellAre you a police, or cop or on the paid agencies of the
state?
Post by darryl mitchellI ask because the paid agents never answer the real
questions.
Post by darryl mitchellYes there is a proletariat in America.
WL
Sent: Tuesday, November 8, 2011 3:34 PM
Subject: Re: [soviet_legacy] Tanks and troops parade across Red Square
Â
Are you trying to say that there is a proletarian class in ameriKKKa let alone the oKKKupy movement of white middle class brats is a "working class movement"? lol
There will be no Soviets in ameriKKKa only what's enforced on ameriKKKa by the revolutionaries in the 3rd world.
Besides, I thought this list was for those itnerested in the Soviet Legacy (Legacy means past, duh) I had no idea that this was supposed to be some sort of revisionist political movement. If thatis so I'll remove myself from this list. I have no interest in white nationalism disguising itself as 1st world Marxism.
M.Â
Post by darryl mitchellÂ
I found this submission 100% capitalist ideology. There was
no Marxist narrative of Russia today under the leadership of custodians of private
property.
Post by darryl mitchellPost by darryl mitchellThe name of this list is Soviet Legacy rather than âStalin
Legacy.â
Post by darryl mitchellPost by darryl mitchellStalin is the bone in the throat of the communist movement
that can neither be swallowed nor coughed up. Soviet Legacy as a concept is larger
than Stalin. Soviet Legacy needs renewal as the Occupy Movement changes the
political discussion in America. Soviet Legacy Part is a country without
capitalist corporations. It is a legacy of a system of higher education that
does not reduced young educated people to indentured servants. This legacy includes
a country without a stock market or captains of high finance dictating economic
development. Soviet Legacy is a health care system without insurance companies. Â
Post by darryl mitchellPost by darryl mitchellNo one in their right mind would want to duplicate or reproduce
the Soviet industrial socialism, which is impossible in America.
Post by darryl mitchellPost by darryl mitchellThe Russian ruling class has its need to revive Stalin the
individual, rather than Soviet Legacy as it faces an aggressive American Empire
state.
Post by darryl mitchellPost by darryl mitchellLetâs be more thoughtful, more concrete and more serious as revolutionary
propagandists on the side of the proletariat.
Post by darryl mitchellPost by darryl mitchellWL.
Sent: Tuesday, November 8, 2011 12:22 PM
Subject: [soviet_legacy] Tanks and troops parade across Red Square
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